QUINTESSENTIAL POETRY PRESENTS JOHN PATRICK ROBBINS - RAW, UNFILTERED POETRY FROM THE MAD EDITOR

 Welcome to the quintessential Poetry podcast. Streamed live from the heart of Washington DC. 
Here you'll find a portal to vibrant voices, echoing souls, and an ongoing celebration of the 
extraordinary power of language. So prepare yourself to join host. Dr. Michael Anthony Ingram 
and his special guests as they explore traditional and spoken word forms of poetry.  
Thanks for tuning into our first ever late night podcast. 
My special guest is John Patrick Robbins. He's a noted author, poet, and short story writer. He's 
also the editor in chief of 10 magazines, including Ry Whiskey Review, the title of his newest 
poetry book. 
Are we Dead yet? Reach number one on Amazon's list of poetry books. Hello John. Welcome to 
the program.  
Hey Michael, how are you? It's a great introduction, by the way.  
Yes. You've been with me John more times than anybody in the world.  
Wow. 
You know,  
what can I say?  
We always have a blast.  
I can tell You're enthused.  
Oh, man. , I love being on the show. I do. I just, it's, we always have a good rapport and we 
always have a good  
time. What can I say? You know, it's, it is out there as we get, we, it's always fun though, you 
know? Yes. I'm always, I'm always amp. 
I know. You always welcome  
Okay, let's focus, . You've written a new book, as I said, that read number one on Amazon's list 
of poetry books. Are we dead yet? Mm-hmm. I'd like to know about the title. And what inspired 
the book.  
I had the title first. It was one of those things that I'm just a title person. I'll sit down and write 
titles left and right. And I absolutely love the title because, it's like tongue in cheek, you know, 
kids always riding in the backseat or say, Hey, are we there yet? My work is kind of morbid and 
dark and , sarcastic. 
There's, it's a tongue in cheek thing, but it kind of went hand in hand with my work. And then, 
uh, I had the cover, I had the cover for about,, I think it was well over a year before there was 
actually a book. That's for me. It starts title cover. And then I kept thinking, I was going through 
a lot of things at the time. 
A lot of really bad things in my life. And then I had done a book with my good buddy at 
Whiskey City Press. I, Kevin, his. Hitman. I always mess up his name. He's like, wow, thanks 
John. Um, I was coming off mirror mass, nothing. and really doing kind of heavier work. 
And then this book came about. So, yeah.  
Now in this particular book, talk some more about some of the predominant things. What are we 
gonna read?  
Darkness. , it was homage to, to call Blake a market that, in particular that I don't see people 
exploring much. 
You can see the influences of, kowski everywhere left and right, barroom poems. Once I myself 
have done way too many of. But I wanted to do something completely different.     self
empowerment, but a lot of dark, heavy subject matter. Once I always had, I just embraced it 
more with this. 
Now I know that you charted on the gothic chart, am I correct?  
Yeah. Gothic fiction. That was weird. Yeah.  
How do you think that happened? Why do you think someone  viewed your work as being 
gothic? What do you think?  
Well, I didn't wanna tell people, but I made a special deal with a really nice person. 
Mm-hmm. And I, uh, you know, and next thing I know, I was on the chart, so, oh, okay.  
Alright.  
I had to sign a heck of a contract. Now how do you land there? I think that had to do something 
somewhat with the cover, uh, possibly with the work. 
There was a bit in there. Of course there is gothic fishing in there. Um, and noir type. Mm-hmm. 
Just my usual, if people know my work, there is my usual work, but it's vastly different as far as 
how it landed on the chart. I I'm have no idea. Not surprised I've charted at all, so, 
tell me about the cover. It's quite striking.  
Um, for me it always starts with the cover. So I wanted something that struck you, that's gonna 
be very alarming. It's beautiful, but it's very dark. 
And so that's what catches the eye, basically. I, you know, , 
what my friend was your strategy for organizing the poems in the book, how did you go about 
that? How did you select them?  
Well, with, it's always like a rhythm for me. It's like music, it's like it no different. If you were 
putting together a mixed CD or album, you kind of are DJing or whatever. You want to get a 
vibe and I was gonna make the darkest, heaviest book I could once was the polar opposite of 
everything I was doing. 
So yeah, if you're looking for that old style there's plenty of people who do that and the bar room 
stuff, it's there. A, a good friend of mine, um, Susan Teer said like, taking the work down the 
ground zero. Kind of like destroying everything I did and just completely taking it down to just 
stripping it down, creating something completely different. 
As you think about your book, are you holding the book resonates with a broad range of readers, 
or were you attempting to target a specific audience? 
I mean, ultimately you do hope that they connect. I really wanted to, I was kind of, I wanted to 
target a way bigger audience for the people who kind of wanted something darker that had, there 
was just a big gap. 
So to me there is, there's a lot of people who I see writing, they're kind of doing the conventional 
styles and that's great because I've tried it, I'm not too good at it. I tried it. Right, right. Um. But, 
uh, I wanted to do something completely, you know, different and, and go and try a different 
market. 
To me, there's a bigger market in people who are not reading poetry than people who are, and I 
don't mean that bad, but it's kind of the truth.  
Yes, I understand my friend. What do you think you learned about yourself writing this book?  
What I learned in myself in this book in particular, I guess for the fact that it did well, is, I don't 
have to entertain. 
I didn't have to, yes, I have the humor and I can do that, and I can be over the top with humor, 
but I didn't have to once was not like a very comfortable place for me. Cause like we hide behind 
a lot, truth's told in a joke. But then again, it's also, it's a, mechanism for coping with things as 
well. 
So yeah, that was, it was very different for me. I learned a lot about myself in that sense that I 
didn't have to, I can just write whatever I want post and, and I did, but I still catered a lot, alright. 
The antic,  
I understand. Well,  
Now is time for the reason that you're here to hear.  
John Patricks. You on my friend?  
All right, thank you. This is, I'm gonna start out with the, uh, very first one in the book and uh, 
and then I'll go right from there. This first one's called Blood Lust, a Gogo, whatever happened 
to all the funny pretty little poems about trivial things misspelled as they were misguided. 
Demon underneath a fork, tongue you in just as quickly. So the door was locked behind You let 
us burn together. I desire your ago to quench my thirst. We were never equals. So never 
entertain, delusion. The clocks promise and the witching hours delight. The veils are thin 
between worlds and the devil's dance is a promise I'll gladly dunk your head within the flames to 
allow you the burden of my truth. 
Tears won't expel burning flesh, but weep as you must. The tail began as a day's dream that 
faded into a nightmare. I laugh last always, even at your expense. This next one's called Tour 
Guidance. 
Sometimes when I'm alone, I escape and allow my truth to run free. I often find myself viewing 
you as a stranger now as I am, but an exile from your heart. The moon over the water is 
cleansing as it is painful to embrace alone. There are times when I wish only to know the love of 
another. Yet within the knowledge of my dark and soul, I know this is an, this is a hope. 
I must abandon the sting of a moment's pain and the flight within the fix. No demons may 
trouble me as no angels may provide comfort either. It's in the emptiness, a poisons truth, and my 
own personal hate. Sometimes we have to provide our own escape. I happily buried alive. That's. 
This. Next one is one that's a new one actually, not even in the book. And this is called  
Pine Float. 
Maybe I'll call you  
up when I get that urge and I need something other than a bottle satisfying my needs, and maybe 
I will pour out that personality. Believe I truly care. We all need something as to create. I need to 
be left alone. So now that we, we shared a not so memorable encounter, the door is that way. 
See yourself out. This space in my chest was z blanketed from the start. My thoughts are solely, 
solely my own, as the words are to be read as never was I my darling. Is a January snow storm. 
Tortured souls aren't always in need of a savior. There is no good upon this. Goodbye. And that 
is the end of that one. 
Are we still on air?  
Would you like me to ask you a question? You know, I can do that. I'm good. Sure, sure. 
I know how you love my question. Mm-hmm. John, if you could tell your younger writing self 
anything, . What would you say? Say your younger writing self.  
A younger writing self. Yes. Um, 
uh, you know, be prepared. It's gonna be a rough ride. Serious. You know, serious. That's what I 
would, yeah. It's, uh, uh, and, and get a new hobby, 
right?  
Become an accountant tune in, or bartenders. I  
But these young people tuning in my friend are like, wow, here he is a legend. And he's saying, 
become a bartender instead of a poet or writer.  
Aren aren't most  
bartenders poets anyway. They deal, they, they see everything. 
They tell they, you know, the best bartender is a great storyteller because he keeps you two feet I 
agree. I was, I was kinda like, I was a bouncer. I was kinda like the guy who stood, I'm really 
good at standing against walls and staring at people. 
Right. You know, listening to those first set of poems, they're pretty heavy.  
Yeah. Very heavy. How did you handle the emotional piece? 
I mean, it was, uh,  
I've always been that way, you know? Okay. Like, I've always went deep. It's just this time I 
decided to go beyond that, I guess I should say. Okay.  
Mm-hmm.  
If I didn't have a filter before, I definitely didn't have one after that, you know? Now you  
This next one is, uh, dedicated to a great, uh, friend of mine, uh, Christian English. And, uh, I 
thought it was weird because it's like the title of the poem is just another Christian poem, uh, 
Christian poem. 
I thought, man, it would've been great if she had changed her name to Christian because it would 
sound really catchy, but I think she should have done that for art anyway, this one for her, and 
it's just another Christian poem. I believe it is better to guess than ever being wrapped in a 
disappointment's truth. 
I know you in the best possible sense and never truly, truly knowing you at all. A laugh shared 
from a distance, a delusion, cast and brace, you know only my words as that is the best of me. 
Blonde hair of the bluest eyes. Deception, you are that encounter of, to which I can only imagine 
to never indulge. 
It's to never disappoint. I whisper no luer, only the splendor of what is only my imagination, 
vision. I embrace you here, eternal in the purity of the page. The greatest gift I can ever give is to 
maintain that delusion of never having a glimpse behind the curtain into that one. And now it's 
time to folks. 
Something I, I. And, uh, this is a, uh, one, this is a naughty one. This is why I get a disclaimer on 
my episodes because I'm specialist. Yes, you're the only one  
I  
know.  
Advisory sticker. I learned the hard, what can I,  
I know you learned. I like being naughty. What can I say? I expect my thanking afterwards. 
Anyways,  
so buckle up everybody. We dunno what we're going to hear, you know?  
Oh, yes. Well, on that note, I'm gonna give you just a deep literary one. In fact, we're gonna go 
real deep. I don't know why this got rejected by the New Yorker, and this is a fine little Diddy 
and if you know it, , just sing along. 
It's called A Bitch In a Box.  
Bitch In a Box is what I call a former acquaintance as I attended her funeral to what, you know, 
so-called Friend look to me, shocked saying. How would you like if someone said that about you 
at your funeral? Dude, well, that's absurd. I mean, I'm gonna beated so I'm gonna be more like a 
dick in a can. 
My friend looked at me baffled at my logic and the fact I could be cracking jokes. That's so and 
so utterly cold in this situation. If you cared so little about Sarah, why the hell did you decide to 
even attend her funeral to begin with? I paused for a while looking off into the distance as I lit a 
cigarette. 
Well, honestly, I figured if I went to hit the after party, I figured I would at least put on a ship 
front and appear like I gave a crap. I applied taking a long drag as my friend just shook her head, 
it's awake. Not a fucking after party. You prick. God, I can't imagine how you'll feel when I pass. 
I mean, didn't it sting just a little? 
I mean, you and Sarah used to date after all. Yeah. And she was about as lively and bit as she is 
now in that box, but at least now she has a far better personality being. She doesn't talk. Damn. 
I'm feeling kind of horny. One to go behind the wanna go screw behind the tombstones. She 
never replied to my question. 
I guess it was a bit harsh. It seems I lost two friends that day novia I should write for a hallmark  
you should. Okay, kids, you should. I mean, that would fit right? I know. I really  
I'll be nice for two seconds. 
This is our little one called misty mornings we'll meet when we can often in secret, never in 
shame spent memories of a moment's rewind. Darkness holds you far better than I ever truly 
will. It's the glimpse behind the iron curtains facade. I cannot allow others to know. We over 
time develop our borders to avoid past mistakes, crippling our futures promise, despite our 
emotions. 
I will never promise you anything. Only share a tenderness in those moments alone. Passions as 
neither will it ever mark an occasion. I will meet you when I am broken, yet never in need of 
some emotional fix. It's in privacy, never in shame. You are eternally welcome. I share my 
darkness and  
nothing more. 
And that one, 
and that's, that's what I like about me. I can switch to gears,  
have to learn how to do kids.  
Yes. 
It's like, wow. Anyway, wife's like, man, John, you really are getting strange. 
Thank you so much 
alright, these are some dig I'm reading a lot of them that weren't even in the book, but I'm gonna 
read one that didn't make the cut, but I really liked, and it's called a cinematic cemetery scene. It 
said that Edgar Allen Poe once proposed to a woman in a cemetery. 
And upon hearing this, I thought to myself, what better A place to ask the ultimate question for 
love is always upon the verge of death from its very inception. A candles delicate flame, dancing 
upon a gentle yet intrusive breeze. I hold no hope within my heart. There is nothing left of my 
vacant soul, but an empty room and a clock that eagerly counts down my demise. 
Edgar was a poetic tragedy, often overlooked in the conversation. The pretentious fools who 
gather at the grave of the slob called Bakowski, never understanding to stand at the resting place 
of a true rider makes you an admir to something you most certainly never will be. The Stones, 
gardens, flowers are many as you can count amongst them. 
The broken dreamers now laid to rest our year only to join them. Check out times upon us. The 
departure evident love is best. Buried with no questions whispered upon the wind. Farewell my 
truest love. The page, the bottle, black rose of Memory. It's the end. 
There  
And we will continue  
this. Alright here's one from the book. It's a particular favorite of mine. It's a serious one. Not, 
not gonna be, you know, right. And it's a real life. And of course it's called reflecting on what 
was never meant to be. And so in the morning, I knew it was over. Looking out upon such a 
perfect day, the dreams had escaped me. 
My hopes had disintegrated. Love once knew was dead and I would soon begin to decay. People 
are moments to me and nothing more. I once shared my life, but I believe you to be a prison. As 
now I know my ignorance. Yet our choices are final. As mine are turning fatal, I know there are 
no more chances for someone is lost as myself. 
Distance is my only option, and I'm sorry my friends. This must be a farewell. Every story must 
end and the lamps like must expel. It's not the ending I would've chosen to pin, but with life, the 
ocean's currents are strong. I won't be returning out that window to see a world born anew going 
full. Well, I was done from the start, my dear. 
You had the last of whatever was left to me.  
Was  
it a  
waste? I cannot truly say, 
but love's a wine  
Sweet. Deception. Hope is truly the worst drug of them all. I'll be far from the last sad fool to 
fade away into a depressed ending. I'm just a character I was never built to endure more in a cliff. 
Notes promise that less steps are real doozy. So they say that's the end of that one. 
Alright, well, alright.  
Okay.  
You know, I said earlier that I felt that they, they, the first set of poem were heavy.  
Mm-hmm.  
They're more than just heavy.  
Mm-hmm. One, they're well written. Mm-hmm. Two, they're authentic.  
You share your lived experience in a way that draws people in. And, uh, that always fascinates 
me when I listen to you share your work. 
Yeah.  
You are a consummate thinker because the way that you were able to craft words, that takes 
skill, I can tell you didn't throw things together in a willy-nilly  
fashion. Yeah. . 
No, I, I, yeah, I mean,  
it's, I mean it's a crap and you always gotta improve, yes. I'm never great at anything. I'm always 
trying to improve and I do think, I that I am, and I always want to, I never want to think I'm the 
best at anything.  
Right. 'cause,  
you know, the next stage from ripe is rock. 
And it's not about ego with me, it's about creating the best art. That's what I want to do. I don't 
really care if people mold me. I want 'em to know my work.  
Tell me about word choice. How do you go about choosing, my friend? You look at the, so, so 
what do you do? How do you choose words?  
Well, believe it or not, you know, I mean, you know, me, I, it's, I do have a big vocabulary. 
Sometimes you wouldn't know it when you're just talking to me. But I mean, it's, I don't, I just, I 
love words. I always have, always will. You know, that was always my thing, you know, I love 
language and I love words, so, you know, I tried to be, at times like it used to be, I just didn't care 
as long as I got the message across. 
If I made people laugh, it was great. Once is great. Laughter is great medicine. Yes, it's, but I just 
want to craft, I've gotten more into wanting to craft just more, better lines, the best lines I can 
and I don't know if they're the best, but they're certainly vastly improved from, if you go from 
my first book, yeah. 
My condole to this one. 
Okay. We've got a caller. Alright. Area code eight. Three. Two. The first three numbers are eight 
two. You're on the air with John. Good evening.  
Hello. Hello.  
It's  
a mysterious caller who you'd never have heard before. Okay. 
Uhoh, this mysterious caller would like to know. Um, so why is there like we, Scott Simmons in 
this book than, uh, some other ones you've had, John? You know, I think there needs to be more. 
Uh, because I think it had a certain code also. I think a unicorn would've been scary.  
Yeah. Yeah. The unicorn, right? Just didn't make it. 
I mean, it is scary. Uh, um, you know, almost as scary as thinking Justin Bieber's gonna make 
another album. Um, no. I don't know why there was not as much Scott Simmons, but I always 
say, Scott Simmons is like Rattlesnake, then you only need a little bit to get you. And it really 
was so minute that it really got you. 
Because like his, I think he was the formatter and I said, that's enough. And I didn't, you know, 
he got the formatting credit. We don't pay him because he enjoys, it's a learning experience. It 
really is. , He's paying his dues. Scott?  
Is this Scott Simmons on the line? 
Uh, I I, hello Scott.  
Oh, damn it Michael. He's smart for me.  
It's always good to hear your voice. Scott's been a guest he hasn't beat John's record yet of being 
on here six times. He, one time so far.  
No, this is probably the strangest, so I think he's got everybody beat 
Do you have a question for John Patrick Roberts? Another question for Johns, uh,  
uh, okay. John, like, out, like out of the book, right? Mm-hmm. Which title was your favorite, 
either a dead serious one or the most funny one to you? 
I love that you do that like some of the titles because they were just like metal, like, oh, wow. 
That's such a deep answer, John. Um, no, um, I, you know, uh, probably, I mean, I'm not gonna 
go there 'cause I don't wanna really want to go read this one, but, um, I did like surgical steel, uh, 
fine dining at the room morgue because that's just, that was a great homage and that's a, that just 
sounds just completely wrong. 
Okay. Okay. So yeah, that would definitely be one of my, yeah. Yes. Thank you. Scott's such a 
wonderful question. You're welcome.  
Thank you, Scott. Let's take a, and we'll. 
We are back. I. 
He's sharing.  
Yeah.  
Poems from his book. Are we there yet? Are we there yet? But are we dead yet? Sorry. 
Wow. It's somebody I Pastor Bedtime. 
I'm old. John. I'm old. This may be the first. You look. You look far  
younger than me. This may be the first and less. Late night 
C is the listening poetry online radio program. It's just too late. This just really too late. Uh, are 
we dead yet? We dead yet. Are we? Are we dead yet? Hey, I know that boo. 
Alright, my phrase. 
Okay.  
Please share some more of your work 
okay. Your work. Michael, I thought a long time ago, I've been on this show through. 
Relationships and everything on this show. This show is great. It's almost like therapy. Every 
time I go on, I think, man, what is Michael doing to me? I was normal before I came on here. 
I really was. It's true. 
Do you remember that time when I asked you all those pointed questions that you could not 
answer? Do you remember that time?  
Oh,  
yeah, yeah,  
yeah that's when I, I spent a couple hours in the complimentary free bar. 
Right,  
right. 
This is a special one I wrote just for your show. Oh. And okay. It's, it's a classy one. You're 
gonna like it. It's almost as classy as that last time I wrote something really classy. It had 
everything in, in the relationship after reading it, but that's okay. 
It's called La Trout Dismount. Alright. It was a mostly satisfying night, as with any evenings 
closed. When sex is part of the equation, I consider it a success, even if upon a modest level. And 
as the drinks flowed and the climaxes did approach, we enjoyed that shared silences bliss 
together. 
As with a simple embrace, I decided, to dismount from this little soiree's main attraction. As in a 
moment of miscommunication, my horizontal dance partner swung her knee connecting directly 
between my eyes. Soon the stars were out, even within the confines of this ever so dingy room, 
as I had to think to all the injuries I had incurred from the past couple, never did I believe I 
would incur a concussion from a simple one night stand, which is why I had to write yet a story 
and cast a lie to attempt to bury the truth. 
I realize that maybe I'm just too fucking old, or maybe a tad bit too fragile for this game 
anymore, but of course, maybe I should just stop messing around with women's soccer players. 
But I've always thought of myself as a quasi jock supporter. Then again, I'm either too drunk or a 
tad bit too concussed. 
Remember, kids always use protection. Next time I'm wearing a crash helmet and packing a 
firearm. If you fall off the bike, remember you're a rider. Accidents happen and you're a natural 
at pedaling your ass. My darling child.  
Alright, 
moving right along to another point. 
Okay. This is one called I'm on emotional hiatus. I have no desire to share a moment, let alone 
my life. I have this page, it comforts me in not asking anything more than the blood of my soul. I 
made my sacrifice and I need nothing in return. Call it pathetic and call me cold. I've had 
happiness and oh, no explanation. 
There's no love left within, but there are certainly enough demons to keep me warm. Flesh is 
useful, but I'm always happiest whenever I'm alone. A woven is an extravagance. A rented 
indulgence cherished in the fireside illumination and held within memory as empty arms mean 
the lack the burden of maintaining a continual facade. 
I will never be anything more than a good time, and ultimately a letdown is pushed further, an 
empty conversation, a shared drink without embrace cast in the early morning. Farewell truth is 
never easy as neither is life. The page will be my only passion to remain an epitaph of my desire 
spent delusion. 
And so now we must part that's the end of that one. Wow. He gets from serious to crazy to what 
the hell is wrong with him? 
Actually that's my question. I want to know how difficult is it for the funny side and this other 
side to coexist inside  
you? 
Yeah, we all have different sides, sometimes uh, it's difficult in doing the book sometimes 
because, especially with this one, because there was a lot of deep, and then there's way heavier 
things, there's things that can be misconstrued, and  
mm-hmm. 
Sometimes the humor is very useful and it's almost like a crutch. I fall back on it. With this book, 
I, , took that away and I forced myself to rely more on the seriousness of, my work and heaviness 
than, okay, here comes a joke, it's not like a set pattern. 
Mm-hmm. And  
that's what was good about , Scott Simmons, who, he'll look at a book and he doesn't just, it's not 
just copy and paste editing, it's, Hey man, I think, you're kind of falling back on that. 
Let's double down on this and let's make it uncomfortable. And sometimes he drives you crazy, 
but he's really good at it. Getting a book outta the writer. Yes. Scott  
Scott's great. Mm-hmm.  
So he's good at that job, so,  
yeah. Mm-hmm.  
Hope that answer that question  
well, I think I'd like you to, to tell me about a poem you were proud of writing, but afraid to 
share full fear of misinterpretation. 
Um, well, with this book there was a lot of them. Um, because some things are metaphoric, a, it's 
a gothic thing. It's like, you know, I don't, it doesn't mean because I put the word demon in there. 
I'm like going around like, you know, in the middle of the woods with like secret groups and 
everything. 
Okay.  
It's like I didn't want that. I just wanted a dark heaviness and I didn't wanna explain it , in the 
book by, uh, Edgar and Pope. Yes. You know, and it's, uh, you know, art is to look at, not to 
criticize. Um, that was the thing, you know, I wanted to put out stuff that was just completely 
different. 
Is humor in there, but it's, it's, it's, you know, it's very different. Um, 
You can call it flash fiction if you want. Alright. Um, concessions from the dragon Flair, that, 
that's one that's extremely heavy. 
Okay. , I guess I could read that one.  
I'd like that. I wasn't gonna  
This is the concessions from the dragons there. I danced upon the Razor's Edge in those early 
days. The place was insignificant. It was nothing more than a location for people to shoot up and 
ultimately die. 
Every vice was traded here and the Dem lights brilliance, the smoke that lingered. Of shared and 
new vice discovered. Bruce had his poison and I yearned for my own. The flesh has always been 
my chosen demon, and she was there as so very much was I. She was an escape. Best promise 
wasn't enough to discourage the conversation was negotiation only and exchange of funds for a 
promise of exchange fluids. 
We all chase something that is a reminder of our life's true fragility. Taking pleasures out upon a 
kitchen table. A one-time encounter as her husband slept, oblivious to his lover's deception. I've 
always loved that, which is deemed forbidden. A junkie to keep watch of a door, one gun in a 
room of many, but the willingness to pull the trigger separated us all. 
I sometimes think of those nights spent chasing death. Life's, I think of her as something more 
than a moment's release. They all exist amongst the demons of memory and the angels of darkest 
torment. We spoke of another chance encounter. I remember thes fondly, where others deemed 
themselves lucky to have escaped. 
I know the depths of humanity's darkest waters. I reflect them not as the envisioned sewers 
damnation, or even the personal hells of endless torment. There's beauty as once in the darkest 
torment of shared bliss. That's the end of that one. So yeah, 
it's heavy. Yeah. What do you think your poetry reveals about being human? 
Uh, y  
You know, you don't have to be labeled something, I definitely. 
Alright.  
Okay.  
And, and you know, I, yeah, you, whatever people wanna put you in, you don't have to be there. 
You know, you kind of create your own, you know, narrative or whatever, however you would 
like to say it, but you know  
mm-hmm. You  
know, freedom. That's what my work's about. 
Well, when you're writing, when you're writing, how do you know when a poem is done, my 
friend?  
You know, that is a good question. Um, I just kinda let it go. I go with it. Okay. You know, like 
when I read Carac and how he would just, just go with, just let, instead of fighting it, I just let it 
take me wherever it goes. 
And then after it's, after I'm done, what I think is the end, I'll read through it a couple times and 
think, Hey, maybe I could cut this. Maybe I can not. You know, I think you have to self edit a 
lot. But then again, I also just let myself go with it. It's like going with the ocean and you fight 
the ocean. 
It's like a riptide,  
right? You're  
just gonna get pulled out further and further. You have to go with things instead of fighting that 
and saying, no, this is too, I mean, there's a lot of things that are really harsh, like the one I just 
read, and it's very, it ugly in some senses and other senses it's not. 
Mm-hmm. You know? Mm-hmm. It's all how you want, perceive it, really, 
so are you saying that a poem tells you what it wants to be?  
Yeah, I, I believe so. Okay. Life writes the poem really.  
Alright. Very nice. They talk about poetry being like a canvas. 
If you can paint the picture on it. Any picture, do you believe that poetry's like a canvas that Oh 
yeah. Yeah.  
It's, it's like painting, it's like music. It's that, it's, it's a canvas. Yeah. Very much a canvas. 
Completely agree with that.  
Okay.  
So, yeah.  
Alright. Alright. Please continue. You've got some more points for us. 
Alright. Yeah, of course. Yeah, I'm sorry. Well, we get talking and you know how I'm Yeah, me  
too. You know how I enjoy your, I'm used to being  
office normal. 
Alright. Okay. This next one is called, uh, dark Rose Jubilee. Take me home and simply take me 
to bed. Don't, don't waste a second so you won't be left. With the false hopes to reflect upon what 
I never truly said. I have nothing and you have even less. But the journey is fun. No matter the 
inevitable destination, break me as I will surely do the same to you. 
The tide's always changing along with our moods. Surmise that surmise the damage. The storm 
somehow attempt to fill in the, does it not factor within this equation, 
ENT and a memory upon a one night stand? False hopes are watched clean by a mix of pills and 
drinks, spilt liquor and paid tabs across this landscape. I scarcely recall with assorted lies, 
pawned as solid truth through the delusion of a not so good time. Take me away to something 
that resembles something other in this perpetual decay. 
Take me within to abandon this facade. Beat me up in my own damn game in the darkness. 
Whisper, was it forgettable for you as well? That's the end of that one.  
Very nice, very nice though.  
Well, let's, uh, let's continue it on. And this is a. This is a little one. We're gonna, we're gonna, 
we're gonna like the mood a little. 
We got, we, we, this is what I like to do. I like to kill the room and bring it back. Kill the room. 
Right. And you, you do a great job of that too.  
Kill the room. 
They come back. Nobody knows. I  
I'm just grateful when they, when they do.  
Hey, this is a little bitty that I'm sure will tick people off, but that's fine. I'm used to being the bad 
one in the group anyways. This is, she had a face for radio and a voice that belonged in silent 
pictures that nobody in the right mind ever desired to watch. 
She was there and that's about it. But she could really bob her apples when all hope seemed lost. 
And being, it only cost me a few happy meals and my pretending to care. I believe it was a fair 
trade. It was all grand until she chipped her tooth. And that was like a bit like getting oral from a 
rot tiller. 
Oh, well. Nothing lasts forever, so they say, wow. Such an intellectual, right? Oh God. As I 
laugh at my own jokes, somebody has to That's true.  
Somebody, anybody? Anybody, anybody. Folks, please. Somebody. Please laugh. Alright. 
Alright sir.  
Um, yeah. Okay. Let's go to the rain falls. 
Mainly I wait every morning for that escape into my sleeping wolves and brace. Happy to vanish 
from a life that is just that entitled only Sometimes I question my choices. Didn't realize it's all a 
crap shoot. At best. The tin roof makes the best music and an off the coast storms fury. It lends 
me, lends me its logic to regress further into the strange being who merely waits to die. 
I will never need flowers by my graveside. Nothing is required. Only silence and memories held 
within others, all dusted with sad ending. Much like myself, we pin pages of depth, but the truth 
is we never get to pin The end life is to be cherished, death avoided as best you can. What's in 
between is our finest  
work into that one. 
So as  
we, as we go on to some of the, the more morbid ones in the, in this little. People like God, John, 
really? I know , this is a little to pull himself and it's a fine dining at the room. I still have my 
voice. Yet even to those supposedly close to me, I cannot speak. I'm locked out of my own mind 
and trapped within my own personal health violence can open many doors, including a prison 
cell or cemetery gate, A cold slab, a jaded view. 
We're all corpses in the not so distant future making toe Me in your memories. I was never truly 
here to begin with. Begin into that one.  
Wow. I like that one. I like all of them. But that one, that one touched me differently.  
That's heavy. It's kind of a weird title, but I like that. You know, you gotta do something a little 
bit different sometimes.  
Let me ask you a question.  
Um,  
sure. 
I said I would not do it.  
I don't mind. Yeah. Right. 
What do you think makes us different from other people? 
The desire to do something that usually won't pay you even a nickel. Um, okay. Well  
that is  
true.  
That is true. I don't know. No, I mean, I'm not picking on that or anything like that. You know, 
the humor is how I deal with things. Um, yeah, I  
know, I know. It's,  
I don't know. It's, it's, it's just in you because if it's really. 
If you really want it, you'll do it. And you just, it always has to come out somehow. Mm-hmm. 
That, that would be, you know, I mean, it's like any art really. Artists are all the same, really. 
They have to, you know, they've always, you've always been an artist, you know?  
Mm-hmm.  
Um, but it's, it just, it always has to escape you somehow and it'll get out, you know? 
Mm-hmm. Hopefully in, in a good way. Yes. Yeah, that's true. Be climbing a water tower or 
anything, but yeah,  
I agree. Hundred percent. Hopefully it's in a positive way.  
Wow. Yes. So, yeah. Um, yeah. That, that it, that's the thing. Yeah. All art, it, it will escape it. 
It'll get out. And then that's the thing about us is, you know. 
We're all kind of nuts, but that's what I like about us. 
We have time. I know. I'm definitely crazy. Three or four more points.  
Okay. Let's see. Uh, let's go with the deep cuts. Why not?  
Okay. Alright.  
Um, this is one called, do You Remember Me? I ask you reading these very lines as I ask of 
myself equally in return, I paid the price to understand pain is the key ingredient to any art worth 
reading. 
I am alone as you, as friends avoid this attic at forgetting underneath. I'm still here. Sometimes I 
want to just silent slice an artery so I don't have to feel anything to wake to a fight. I will always 
lose. My body's bloated, my eyes sunken, my soul most certainly recedes. I cannot live like this. 
So I believe we know the solution. 
I owe the devil a dance. I know owe you nothing. In return, I would say I regret nothing but the 
eyes portray my truth. That's why I always hid them to begin with. I'm over it. And for that, I am 
sorry. The currents are as strong as my addiction. It's okay. I just disappointed myself. Long 
before you, please sign my guest book below and keep in mind, I would've appreciated your 
company far better when I was still breathing that one. 
Okay.  
This is, uh, this is one I'm gonna read right now is the not in the book, but I decided to read a 
bunch of originals as well. Alright. This is called Dead Ends and Red Light Vacancies. I felt that 
I sat there looking out the window of a dingy rented room. The water just a stones throw away. 
Winters chill gently embrace the horizon. 
I watched the chaos of an ever approaching sunset as the urchins of the night's existence crept 
from their shared tombs, from the hos worn to this life as myself to dope slingers clocking the 
hours. Iron Bar or the Iron Bar Hotels imposed stay. I closed the curtain in total peace. Knowing 
there was far more honesty here, and in some gated communities, black tie affair, I slept that 
night like a baby in a room that had embraced the demise of many a hope. 
Loss of the children invisible to forgotten fool's logic. Never understanding this could so easily 
be them as well. I thrive in a bleak black drop and wither in the throes of a false embrace. 
Emptiness is honest. The levers never are. There is a fate far worse than death. If ever you want 
to know its truth, simply knock upon my door. 
Just don't be offended. If I do not answer, I share nothing as now I seldom do with the page. And 
that is my ultimate sin. The night, the night embrace, the night embraces all. Somehow, 
somehow have lost their way. The end. 
This is called in Secret. I'll exist to decay slowly amongst a seemingly my own kind. I hate 
because that is my passion and a spark of rage because Ember a mediocrity any day of the week. 
I did not, I do not envy anyone that pens words for to write is not to live, it's to reflect and I'd 
rather inspire, inspire than create G out a dingy window. This is my truth. Will most certainly 
pass us all by eventually. I wish I had planned an escape route instead of an epi. 
That one. Wow. Alright. This is one called, uh,  
seduction and Darkness. To embrace our truth and give to our darkest desires, it's to serve the 
nature of the beast. And men internally are animals by design, my dear, does the chaos excite 
you? The pleasure's promise as you anticipate that it's burn. Seduction is within the eye. 
Betrayal within the soul, give in and leave the burden behind fairy illuminates the darkness, 
green and light darkness bleeds within the soul. Not all creatures are his for the taking as the elite 
are chosen. The hope and embrace the decadence. The devil's always in the detail, my sweetest 
innocence. Soon you'll know that escape bound in darkness. 
There are no chains of burden. Only unlimited pleasures. Promise, trust. If only you dare in, 
you know,  
in your,  
yeah. Okay.  
Were you gonna do another one? No, no, go ahead. You can if you like. I mean, I probably 
interrupted you more times tonight than I would like. I'm so sorry. When I listen to you and you 
share your work, there's a fragility where in some parts you want to give up, but in other parts. 
There's a resolve to keep going and not give up. Mm-hmm. So it's just like, there's like this, it's 
um, I dunno, what would you call it? My friend  
Yin and Yang.  
Yes, that's exactly it. The yin and yang effect. That's exactly what I feel when I hear you read 
your work.  
Mm-hmm. You  
wanna give up, but you don't  
wanna give up. 
What do you think, what do you thinks. 
That's highly accurate. Um, well, you gotta remember if I give up, there's no promise of cocktails 
anywhere else, so  
Yes, yes, true. 
It's like, nah, I don't know. But, um, nah, I don't, you know, I do sometimes, but I ultimately, I 
love what I do. Mm-hmm. I complain about it all the time as we, as all of us do. We get set up 
with it, you know, but  
mm-hmm.  
It's better for me, you know, this is, uh, cheaper than therapy and it's better for me to vent upon a 
page than it is, you know, to like hold it in and something else, you know, know I just, you just 
keep going because that's just what you do. 
You know, I, I always keep on rolling. Well, until I roll, no more.  
Are we digit? My last question for you tonight before we both go here, what key lesson would 
you want people to take away from your work?  
From this particular book, um, kind  
of just look to yourself sometimes. Okay. We're far stronger than we give ourselves credit for. 
Mm-hmm.  
I'm not saying that, don't look to higher powers or anything like that. And just sometimes I just 
think people need to look to themselves instead of placing the blame upon other people and other 
things. Just look to yourself,  
yes.  
Well then, you know, there's a lot of strength and yourself credit because everybody's gonna beat 
you down. 
You have to believe in yourself, and maybe that sounds hokey, I guess, but that's just what I 
think's a lot about empowerment, self empowerment in the book. Really. If you look deeply, it's 
in there, 
we have another, another caller. No.  
Yes we do.  
Wow. Somebody's up. This writers are never up this way to me. 
Let's, let's bring this person on. Eric. One, three. The first three numbers are nine. Nine. On the 
air with John. Hello. Hello. Hello.  
Hello. I'm, hello.  
I, well, I, I, I, I've been fan, uh, for quite a  
minute, and I've noticed in, um, your other books, like there there is a lot of humor with it. 
There's a lot of, um, like just that whole overarching thing of being a jokester and all of that 
along with all of the. 
The commentary in this particular book, like there's more of poignancy and more of, uh, a 
starness to it. And it, while it seems to relate, it also seems to be like a, a departure from, from a 
lot of the previous stuff. And are you gonna be going more in that direction with future work? 
Great question.  
Yeah. 
That is, um, no, um, and, and thank you for the question. Um, as for me, it's, I, I, right now, the 
direction I'm going is, uh, it, it feels good and you know, the thing is it connected and I didn't 
expect it to, so it's not that, oh, I have to create more of the same, but I just like the way I'm 
going. So if you think, if you think this book was dark, you ain't seen nothing yet. 
So, you know.  
Yeah. I, I, I, I, I, I, I love all your work. You very brilliant writer. I just noticed the, uh, very just, 
you know, stark commentary and you touched on a lot of stuff that people don't wanna talk 
about.  
Yes, I agree. Yeah. Well, that's, that's what I do. I usually figure, Hey, what's the most miserable 
subject matter of all time? 
There's a lot of them in there, but, uh, yeah, no, not like all miserable. There's, there's some 
humor there, but yeah,  
There were several laugh out loud moments and I caught said right before, um, I was brought on 
and I just like that. Encourage people to, you know, look for themselves and, and be, be self
empowered a lot. 
I, a lot of people, anybody who's an artist or or a writer, there's a lot of, of, uh, self-doubt and 
wondering if we're this all hacks and, and seeing someone do the thing that you wanna do and do 
it well, gives, uh, a lot of hope that, you know, rest of us can do it too.  
Wow. Connected. Yes.  
Yes.  
Call  
you, make you made me smile with that one, Carl. 
That was a beautiful statement. Very, very. You're welcome. Thank you. Thank you so much 
actually for me. You made, well, John, of course you did, but you helped make the night worth 
it, that there are people out there this time of night listening in that makes me feel good. That 
really does. Scott course listening. 
I'm the  
mo I've been on this show the most.  
That's true. The record, he's been here six times. 
You go, he, he could almost be be a cohost at this point. Yes. Well, that's not good that I, I I I, I, 
I was gonna say something. I don't wanna work. Don't wanna, this  
whole thing takes another whole skill that he just That's right. He could just  
be his, be a sidekick crack. And  
That's true. He can. Okay. He'd be a good side. 
Yeah. A good bartender, sidekick get you in a lot of trouble.  
Alright. I'm not the designated driver. Yeah. That's usually not my job. Well, thank  
you caller. Thank you so much. You're  
very welcome.  
Right. All right. All right. Very nice. Thank you. College. Very, very nice. Alright, John, we are 
going to close out. 
Alright. Alright, now.  
Okay.  
I think the call touched on something. Where do you go from here with your writing?  
Um, you know, it's, it's, it's odd to say that because I am, I'll, I'll announce it here. So I guess it's 
a bit of a statement. Mm-hmm. I'm going on a bit of a hiatus. I am officially stepping down from 
the mags for a while. 
Oh, come on. Seriously. Yeah. Yeah. Just for a while. And I'm going to work on and finish my, 
uh, novella that I've been working on. It's almost done. I wanna concentrate on that and, uh, 
because you, I wanna prove that I can actually do it and I like the word novela and I wanna 
actually have one out there. Yes. 
Alright. It's a very nice word. It's very classy. And I wanna show people that I can be classy and 
trashy. Yes. There you go. There you go. Mitchell. You heard it Here. It's like a news channel 
now. Well, well when you  
finish the novel developer, you're welcome back. Mm-hmm. You're welcome back before then. 
You need to know that, but you're really welcome back when you finish  
the book. 
Alright?  
Uh, I, you know, you know I'm not, you know, I can't stay away, you know, I know you looked 
at the restraining order so I could come back and visit. So I'm very happy  
I know him. I know you know, you're my buddy. You know, you're my, oh,  
you're always a friend, Mike. Yeah. I really appreciate it and appreciate you having me on the 
show. 
Well, you know, I wish you nothing but continued success as you continue to explore who you 
are in terms of your writing, and allow these different sides of you to, explode  
mm-hmm.  
On the scene and be okay with that. Everybody, as we know, won't like it. They want to keep 
you trapped in a box, but it's your box. 
Oh, that was nice. What I, I don't  
think, yeah. Keeping me trapped doesn't work. I'm too noisy. 
Well, okay. 
I mean, I'm a bit of a character. I dunno if you know this all.  
Just a little bit.  
Little bit. Just  
a little bit. Well, I wanna thank you, my friends, for. Christening the very first, what is this that 
we're doing? Four. What is it? The first late night show? 
Yes. The show  
and the very first late night show. Yeah. They may never be another, so this late at night.  
Oh, don't, don't say that. I'll be back on again. You know me. I never go away. I have always 
hanging out in the green room. Like, who's that dude living in there? He doesn't have anywhere 
to live. That's where we'd be letting live there. 
I have to bring  
you on late at night  
with an R rating.  
R rating already. But I'm worth it. I'm fun. I'm like a. I'm like a B-movie, but I'm a fun one 
because by UND fan.  
That's right. Well, thank to thank you to the listening audience for tuning in. We'll be back again 
and as I share with everyone every time we we're together, let poetry ring somewhere throughout 
the land. 
Alright, goodnight take care.  
okay, goodnight.  
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